TERRY GROSS, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. Subsequent in our sequence of interviews on R&B, rockabilly and early rock ‘n’ roll, we now have my 1997 interview with Johnny Money, one in all nation music’s most influential performers. He is in each the Nation Music and Rock & Roll Halls of Fame. A few of his best-known recordings embrace “I Stroll The Line,” “Ring Of Fireplace” and “Folsom Jail Blues.” His early recordings had been on Solar Data, which was owned by Sam Phillips, who we simply heard from, and was probably the most influential label that produced rockabilly.
I spoke with Money when his autobiography was printed. Within the e-book, he mentioned that after his hits within the ’60s, he did not promote enormous numbers of data, however he stored making music he is happy with. However in 1994, he connected with document producer Rick Rubin, who had produced many rap and rock hits. The recordings they made collectively included many Money covers of up to date rock songs, together with songs by 9 Inch Nails and Sting. And, because the autobiography says, the Money and Rubin collaborations remodel Money’s picture from Nashville has-been to hip icon, and it gained him a brand new, younger viewers.
Quickly after we spoke in 1997, he introduced that he had Parkinson’s illness and was canceling the rest of his e-book tour, which had simply begun. His analysis was later modified to autonomic neuropathy, a illness affecting the nervous system. Money died in 2003. Earlier that yr, he gained a Grammy for finest male nation vocal efficiency for his new model of “Give My Love To Rose,” which he first recorded on Solar Data in 1957. Here is his 1956 recording of “Get Rhythm,” which was produced by Sam Phillips on Solar Data.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “GET RHYTHM”)
JOHNNY CASH: (Singing) Hey, get rhythm. While you get the blues, come on, get rhythm. While you get the blues, get a rock ‘n’ roll feeling in your bones, put faucets in your toes and get going. Get rhythm while you get the blues. A little bit shoeshine boy, he by no means will get low down. However he is received the dirtiest job on the town, bending low on the folks’s toes on a windy nook of a grimy avenue. Properly, I requested him whereas he shined my sneakers methods to preserve from getting the blues. He grinned as he raised his little head. He popped his shoeshine rag, after which he mentioned, get rhythm. While you get to the blues, come on, get rhythm.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: You grew up through the Melancholy. What are a few of the issues that your father did to make a residing when you had been a boy?
CASH: My father was a cotton farmer first. And – however he did not have any land, or what land he had, he misplaced it within the Melancholy. So he labored as a woodman – woodsman – reduce pulp wooden for the paper mills. Rode the rails on – in boxcars, going from one harvest to a different to attempt to make a bit cash choosing fruit or greens. Did each sort of work possible, from portray to shoveling to herding cattle. He is at all times been such an inspiration to me due to the numerous sorts of issues that he did and the sort of life he lived. He impressed me in order that – all of the issues he did, so removed from being a soldier in World Warfare I to being an previous man on – in his patio, sitting on the porch, watching the canines, ? I take into consideration his life, and it could encourage me to go my very own different route. And I identical to to discover minds and the wishes of individuals on the market.
GROSS: You understand, it is fascinating that you simply say your father impressed you a lot. I am certain you would not have wished to guide his life choosing cotton.
CASH: I did. From – till I used to be 18 years previous, that’s. Then I picked the guitar, and I have been choosing it since.
GROSS: (Laughter) Proper. Did you have got a plan to get out? Did you very a lot wish to get out of the city the place you had been introduced up and get out of choosing cotton?
CASH: Yeah. I knew that after I left there on the age of 18, I would not be again. And it was sort of frequent information amongst all of the folks there that while you graduate from highschool right here, you go to varsity or go get a job or one thing and do it by yourself. And having been conversant in laborious work, it was no drawback for me. However first, I hitchhiked to Pontiac, Michigan, and received a job working in Fisher Physique, making these 1951 Pontiacs. I labored there three weeks, received actually sick of it, went again dwelling and joined the Air Power.
GROSS: You may have such an exquisite, deep voice. Did you begin singing earlier than your voice modified?
CASH: Oh, yeah. I’ve received no deep voice at this time. I’ve received a chilly. However after I was younger, I had a excessive tenor voice. I used to sing Invoice Monroe songs, and I would sing Dennis Day songs that, like…
GROSS: Oh, no.
CASH: …He sang on the – yeah, songs that he sang on “The Jack Benny Present.”
GROSS: Wow.
CASH: Each week, he sang an previous Irish folks music. And subsequent day within the fields, I would be singing that music if I used to be working within the fields. And I at all times liked these songs. And with my excessive tenor, I believed I used to be fairly good, , virtually pretty much as good as Dennis Day. However after I was 17, 16, my father and I reduce wooden all day lengthy, and I used to be swinging that crosscut noticed and hauling wooden. And after I walked within the again door late that afternoon, I used to be singing…
(Singing) Everyone going to have faith and glory. Everyone going to be singing a narrative.
I sang these previous gospel songs for my mom. And he or she mentioned, is that you simply? And I mentioned, sure, ma’am. And he or she came to visit and put her arms round me and mentioned, God’s received his arms on you. I nonetheless consider that, ?
GROSS: She realized you had a present.
CASH: That is what she mentioned, yeah. She referred to as it the present.
GROSS: Properly, how did you’re feeling about your voice altering? It should have surprised you should you had been singing like Denis O’Dea after which abruptly, you had been singing like Johnny Money (laughter). How did…
CASH: Properly…
GROSS: Yeah.
CASH: I do not know. I suppose after I was a tenor, I simply – and when it modified, I believed, properly, it goes proper together with these hormones, and every thing’s figuring out actually good, ? I felt like my voice was changing into a person’s voice.
GROSS: Proper. Proper. So did you begin singing totally different songs as your voice received deeper?
CASH: Mm-hmm. “Fortunate Previous Son,” “Reminiscences Are Made Of This,” “Sixteen Tons.” I received – I developed a reasonably uncommon model, I feel. If I am something, I am not a singer, however I am a music stylist.
GROSS: What is the distinction?
CASH: Properly, I say I am not a singer, so which means I can not sing, however – does not it (laughter)?
GROSS: Properly, however – I imply, that is not true. I perceive you make a distinction, however you actually can sing. Yeah. Go forward.
CASH: Thanks. Properly, a music stylist is, like, to take an previous folks music like “Delia’s Gone” and do a contemporary, white man’s model of it. Plenty of these I did that manner, ? I might take songs that I would liked as a baby and redo them in my thoughts for the brand new voice I had, the low voice.
GROSS: I do know that you simply briefly took singing classes, and also you say in your new e-book that your singing instructor instructed you, , do not let anyone change your voice. Do not even trouble with the singing classes. How did you find yourself taking classes within the first place?
CASH: My mom did that. And he or she was decided that I used to be going to go away the farm and do properly in life. And he or she thought, with the present, I would be capable to try this. So she took in washing. She received a washer in 1942, as quickly as they received electrical energy. And he or she took in washing. She washed the schoolteacher’s garments and anyone she may and despatched me for singing classes for $3 per lesson. And that is how she made the cash to ship me.
GROSS: What was your response when the instructor instructed you do not let anyone change what you are doing, , I am not going to show you anymore?
CASH: I used to be fairly blissful about that. I did not actually wish to change, ? I felt good about my voice.
GROSS: You left dwelling while you had been about 18. After which, how previous had been you while you really went to Memphis?
CASH: Properly, I went to Memphis after I completed the Air Power in 1954. I lived on that farm till I went to the Air Power. I used to be in there 4 years. And after I got here again, I received married and moved to Memphis. Obtained an condominium. Began making an attempt to promote home equipment at a spot referred to as Residence Gear Firm. However I could not promote something and did not actually wish to. All I wished was the music. And if someone in the home was taking part in music after I would come, I might cease and sing with them. Like one time, Gus Cannon, the person who wrote “Stroll Proper In,” which was successful for the Rooftop Singers. And I sat on the entrance porch with him day after day when I discovered him and sang these songs.
GROSS: While you received to Memphis, Elvis Presley had already recorded “That is All Proper.” Sam Phillips had produced him for his label, Solar Data. You referred to as Sam Phillips and requested for an audition. Did it take plenty of nerve to make that cellphone name?
CASH: No, it simply took the correct time. I used to be absolutely assured that I used to be going to see Sam Phillips and to document for him that after I referred to as him, I believed, I’ll get on Solar Data. So I referred to as him, and he turned me down flat. Then two weeks later, I referred to as, turned down. Turned down once more. He instructed me over the cellphone that he could not promote gospel music as a result of it was impartial and never some huge cash, ? So I did not press that situation. However sooner or later I simply determined that I am able to go. So I went down with my guitar and sat on the entrance steps of his recording studio and met him when he got here in. And I mentioned, I am John Money. I am the one which’s been calling. And should you’d hearken to me, I consider you will be glad you probably did. And he mentioned, come on in. That was a great lesson for me, , to consider in myself.
GROSS: So what did Phillips really reply to many of the songs that you simply performed him?
CASH: He responded most to a music of mine referred to as “Hey Porter,” which was on the primary document. However he requested me to go write a love music or possibly a bitter weeper. So I wrote a music referred to as “Cry, Cry, Cry,” went again in and recorded that for the opposite facet of the document.
GROSS: Properly, why do not we hear “Cry, Cry, Cry,” which was on the primary single that Solar Data launched by you.
CASH: OK.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “CRY, CRY, CRY”)
CASH: (Singing) Everyone is aware of the place you go when the solar goes down. I feel you solely dwell to see the lights uptown. I wasted my time after I would attempt, attempt, attempt, ‘trigger when the lights have misplaced their glow, you will cry, cry, cry. Quickly your sugar daddies will all be gone. You will get up some chilly day and discover you are alone. You will name for me, however I’ll inform you bye, bye, bye. Once I flip round and stroll away, you will cry, cry, cry. You are going to cry, cry, cry, and you may cry alone. When everybody’s forgotten, and also you’re left by yourself, you are going to cry, cry, cry.
GROSS: We’re listening to my 1997 interview with Johnny Money. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF HERLIN RILEY’S “TWELVE’S IT”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: What was it like while you began to go on tour? You understand, after coming from the cotton fields, it is true, I imply, you’d been within the Military and also you’d been overseas, , with the Military. However what was it like for you within the early days of getting acknowledged, , touring across the nation?
CASH: Properly, after I began taking part in concert events, I went out from Memphis to Arkansas, Louisiana and Tennessee. Performed the little cities there. However I might exit myself in my automotive and arrange the present, or get the present booked in these theaters. After which alongside about three months later, Elvis Presley requested me to sing with him on the Overton Park Shell in Memphis. And I sang “Cry, Cry, Cry” and “Hey Porter.” And from that point on, I used to be on my manner. And I knew it, I felt it, and I liked it.
So Elvis requested me to go on tour with him, and I did. I labored with Elvis 4 or 5 excursions within the subsequent yr or so. And I used to be at all times intrigued by his charisma, ? You may’t be within the constructing with out Elvis – with Elvis with out him, ? And he impressed me so, together with his hearth and vitality, that I suppose that inspiration from him actually helped me to go.
GROSS: What had been the temptations like for a younger married man like your self on the street, , slowly changing into a star?
CASH: Fame was fairly laborious to deal with, really. The nation boy in me tried to interrupt free and take me again to the nation, however the music was stronger. The urge to exit and do the present was rather a lot stronger. And the temptations had been ladies, ladies, which I liked. After which amphetamines not very a lot later. Operating all night time, , in our vehicles on tour. And we – the medical doctors received these good capsules that give us vitality and preserve us awake. So I began taking these, and I favored them a lot I received hooked on them. After which I began taking downers or sleeping capsules to come back down and relaxation after two or three days. So it turned a cycle. I used to be taking the capsules for some time, after which the capsules began taking me.
GROSS: I wish to play what I feel was your first large hit, “I Stroll The Line.”
CASH: That was my third document.
GROSS: And so that you wrote this music. Inform me the story of the way you wrote it and what you had been fascinated by on the time.
CASH: Within the Air Power, I had an previous Wilcox-Homosexual recorder and used to listen to guitar runs on that recorder going (imitating guitar), just like the chords on “I Stroll The Line.” And I at all times wished to write down a love music utilizing that theme, , that tune. And so I began to write down the music. And I used to be in Gladewater, Texas, one night time with Carl Perkins, and I mentioned, I’ve received a good suggestion for a music. And I sang the primary verse that I had written, and I mentioned, it is referred to as “As a result of You are Mine.” And he mentioned, “I Stroll The Line” is a greater title. So I modified it to “I Stroll The Line.”
GROSS: Now, had been you pondering of your personal life while you wrote this?
CASH: Mm-hmm. It was sort of a prodding to myself to play it straight, Johnny.
GROSS: And was this – I feel I learn that this was purported to be a ballad. I imply, it was purported to be gradual while you first wrote it.
CASH: That is the best way I sang it, yeah, at first. However Sam wished it, , up-tempo, and I put paper within the strings of my guitar to get that (imitating guitar) sound, and with a bass and a lead guitar, there it was. Naked and stark that music was when it was launched, and I heard it on the radio, and I actually did not prefer it. And I referred to as Sam Phillips and requested him, please, don’t ship out any extra data of that music.
GROSS: Why?
CASH: However he laughed at me. I simply did not like the best way it sounded to me. I did not know I sounded that manner, and I did not prefer it. I do not know. However he mentioned, let’s give it an opportunity. And it was only a few days till – that is all it took to take off.
GROSS: That is humorous. I imply, you’d heard your voice earlier than it, hadn’t you?
CASH: Mm-hmm.
GROSS: However – so it was one thing in your personal singing you were not liking while you heard it?
CASH: Properly, the music and my voice collectively, I simply felt prefer it was actually bizarre and – however I received used to it in a short time. I do not know if that – I did not hate it, however I simply did not prefer it. I believed I may do higher.
GROSS: Properly, let’s hear “I Stroll The Line.” This can be a nice document. It was nice then, and it nonetheless is. That is Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I WALK THE LINE”)
CASH: (Singing) I preserve a detailed watch on this coronary heart of mine. I preserve my eyes huge open on a regular basis. I preserve the ends out for the tie that binds. Since you’re mine, I stroll the road. I discover it very, very simple to be true. I discover myself alone when every day’s by. Sure, I am going to admit that I am a idiot for you. Since you’re mine, I stroll the road.
GROSS: We’re listening to the interview I recorded with Johnny Money in 1997. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RARE EARTH SONG, “HEY BIG BROTHER”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: I feel it was within the late Fifties that you simply began doing jail concert events, which you finally turned very well-known for. What received you began performing in jail?
CASH: Properly, I had a music referred to as “Folsom Jail Blues.” That was the hit simply earlier than “I Stroll The Line.” And the folks in Texas heard about it on the state jail and received to writing me letters asking me to come back down there. So I responded and the – then the warden referred to as me and requested if I might come down and do a present for the prisoners in Texas. And so we went down, and there is a rodeo in any respect these exhibits that the prisoners have there. And in between the rodeo issues, they requested me to arrange and do two or three songs. In order that was what I did. I did “Folsom Jail Blues,” which they thought was their music, , and “I Stroll The Line,” “Hey, Porter,” “Cry, Cry, Cry.” After which the phrase received round on the grapevine that Johnny Money is all proper and that you simply should see him. So the requests began coming in from different prisoners all around the United States, after which the phrase received round. So I at all times wished to document that, , to document a present due to the response I received. It was far and above something I had ever had in my life, the whole explosion of noise and response that they gave me with each music.
So then I got here again the following yr and performed the jail once more, the New Yr’s Day present. Got here again once more a 3rd yr and did the present. After which I stored speaking to my producers at Columbia about recording a kind of exhibits. It was so thrilling. I mentioned that the folks on the market should share that, , and really feel that pleasure, too. So, a preacher buddy, a buddy of mine named Floyd Gressett set it up for us and Lou Robin and plenty of different folks concerned at Folsom Jail. So we went into Folsom on February 11, 1968, and recorded a present dwell.
GROSS: Why do not we hear “Folsom Jail Blues” out of your “Stay At Folsom Jail” document? That is Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “FOLSOM PRISON BLUES – LIVE AT FOLSOM STATE PRISON, FOLSOM, CA – JANUARY 1968”)
CASH: Hey. I am Johnny Money.
(CHEERING)
CASH: (Singing) I hear the prepare a-coming. It is rolling around the bend. And I ain’t seen the sunshine since I do not know when. I am caught in Folsom Jail, and time retains dragging on. However that prepare retains a-rolling on right down to San Antone. Once I was only a child, my mama instructed me, son, at all times be a great boy. Do not ever play with weapons. However I shot a person in Reno simply to look at him die. Once I hear that whistle blowing, I grasp my head and cry.
(CHEERING)
GROSS: That is Johnny Money dwell at Folsom Jail. And Johnny Money has a brand new autobiography that is simply been printed.
I suppose Merle Haggard was within the viewers for one in all your San Quentin concert events. Should have been fairly thrilling to seek out that out. That was earlier than he…
CASH: Yeah.
GROSS: …Had recorded, I feel, that he was in there.
CASH: Yeah. ’68 and ’69, proper on the entrance row was Merle Haggard.
GROSS: Yeah, and who knew?
CASH: I imply, I did not know that until about 1963, ’62. He instructed me all about it. He noticed each present that I did there. And naturally, simply the remainder is historical past for Merle. He got here out and instantly had success himself.
GROSS: You understand, it is fascinating. You’ve got at all times or virtually at all times worn black throughout your profession. And I used to be keen on studying that your mom hated it, too (laughter).
CASH: She – yeah. Yeah, she did.
GROSS: See, we now have one thing in frequent. Our moms do not like black.
CASH: Yeah.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CASH: However I like it.
GROSS: Me, too.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: However you gave in for some time. She began making you shiny, flashy outfits, even a pleasant white…
CASH: Yeah.
GROSS: …Swimsuit. What did it really feel like so that you can be on stage in shiny colours or all in white?
CASH: Properly, I used to be – that was 1956, and I hadn’t been sporting the black for very lengthy. Oh, it was OK. I might put on something my mom made me, ? I simply could not afford to show her down. However earlier than lengthy, I made a decision to begin with the black and keep it up as a result of it felt good to me on stage that – a determine there in black and every thing popping out his face. That is the best way I wished to do it.
GROSS: Just a few years in the past, you began making data with Rick Rubin. Appeared initially like a really inconceivable match. He had produced plenty of rap data and produced the Beastie Boys and the Purple Scorching Chili Peppers. You understand, it could seem to be a stunning match. It could – it ended up being a incredible match. How did he method you?
CASH: Lou Robin, my supervisor, got here to me and talked to me a couple of man referred to as Rick Rubin that he had been speaking to that wished me to signal together with his document firm. It was American Recordings. I mentioned, I just like the identify. Perhaps it might be OK. So he mentioned, I would love you to go together with me and sit in my front room with a guitar and two microphones and simply sing to your coronary heart’s content material every thing you ever wished to document. I mentioned, that sounds good to me.
GROSS: Why do not we hear “Delia’s Gone” from Johnny Money’s “American Recordings” CD? And, Johnny Money, I wish to thanks a lot for speaking with us.
CASH: I wish to say you are actually good at what you do, and I recognize you. Thanks.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DELIA’S GONE”)
CASH: (Singing) Delia. Oh, Delia. Delia, all my life. If I hadn’t have shot poor Delia, I would have had her for my spouse. Delia’s gone. Another spherical. Delia’s gone.
GROSS: My interview with Johnny Money was recorded in 1997. He died in 2003. Tomorrow, we proceed our archive sequence – R&B, rockabilly and early rock ‘n’ roll. We’ll hear from Johnny Otis, who had the hits “Harlem Nocturne” and “Willie And The Hand Jive” and found Little Esther, Jackie Wilson, Massive Mama Thornton, Hank Ballard and Etta James. You will additionally hear my interview with Etta James, who’s now finest recognized for her recording of “At Final.” I hope you will be a part of us.
FRESH AIR’s government producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Briger. Our interviews and opinions are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and John Sheehan. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Our consulting visible producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the present. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I am Terry Gross.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DELIA’S GONE”)
CASH: (Singing) However, jailer, oh, jailer. Jailer, I can not sleep ‘trigger throughout the bedside, I hear the patter of Delia’s toes. Delia’s gone. Another spherical. Delia’s gone. So in case your lady’s devilish, you may let her run. Or you may deliver her down and do her like Delia received completed. Delia’s gone. Another spherical. Delia’s gone.
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