There was a time when clowns was once humorous. Don’t ask me why — I don’t actually get it — however they’d amuse and delight individuals the world over. These days, nonetheless, clowns are largely utilized in fiction to torment and terrorize individuals, particularly youngsters (and Batman). Nonetheless,whereas clowns have largely absconded from the world of humorous, most depictions of scary clowns nonetheless have a little bit of darkish humor to them, as if hilarity residue stays from their earlier comedic incarnation.
So far as terrifying clowns go, none has confirmed to be extra fashionable than Pennywise from Stephen King’s It, which has been a bestselling novel, a success miniseries in 1990 and two current blockbuster movies. Now, Pennywise is again within the HBO Max sequence It: Welcome to Derry the place he torments youngsters again within the Nineteen Sixties. And, whereas Pennywise delivers much more screams than laughs, there’s nonetheless a little bit of darkish comedy within the character, like within the unique miniseries when Tim Curry’s Pennywise cackles at Richie whereas spinning a noisemaker within the library, or within the 2017 movie, when Mike spots Invoice Skarsgård’s Pennywise within the bushes and the grinning clown waves to him with a severed hand.
These are the sorts of moments I reached out to Jason Fuchs about. After contributing to It Chapter Two, Fuchs grew to become the showrunner of It: Welcome to Derry, which concludes tomorrow. However, earlier than Pennywise goes again into hibernation, Fuchs joined me by way of Zoom to debate Pennywise’s warped humorousness in his present and in variations from days passed by in Derry.
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Simply to verify we’re on the identical web page right here, do you discover Pennywise to be humorous?
Oh sure. Pennywise is despicable and mean-spirited and merciless, however he has a sick humorousness in the identical manner that characters just like the Joker and Harley Quinn do. I’ve labored within the DC universe, however I contemplate myself a DC fan first, similar to I contemplate myself a Stephen King fan first. And, a part of the rationale that we, as followers, love these villains is as a result of they’re humorous in a darkish, inappropriate, terrible manner. The sense of comedy that emanates from their completely cockeyed perspective of the universe in some methods breaks the stress, however it in the end makes it a lot scarier, I believe, as a result of them being humorous suggests a humanity to them.
I do not suppose it is a acutely aware realization for an viewers — it actually was not an instantaneous acutely aware realization for myself or our crew — however as we did our deep dive, I used to be like, “Why are we so obsessive about Pennywise?” I have been working on this Stephen King Pennywise house since 2017. That is a very long time and it has been even longer since I fell in love with the ebook, which I learn on the inappropriately younger age of 11. So, what’s it that feels so compelling? I believe the reply is that there’s a facet of humanity to Pennywise.
We are saying within the movies, and that is from the ebook, that It has to abide by the principles of the shape It inhabits. There is definitely a cryptic aspect to that and it is by no means totally defined, however what it suggests is that, when It’s within the guise of a human type — and Pennywise is a human type — that there are some features of humanity that this interdimensional very-much-not-human being has to observe.
If you introduce comedy right into a scary scene, what does it do to the horror? Does it improve it and make it scarier? Is it a aid? How does the humorous have an effect on the scary?
From a writing perspective, the comedic moments in horror actually do unlock one thing within the viewers emotionally. If you’re laughing, you are invested. If you’re laughing, you are linked. So, in a bizarre manner, you are asking the viewers to be susceptible, after which you’re taking benefit of that vulnerability as a storyteller. You are saying “Care,” and you then’re making the most of that caring with one thing dramatic and sudden.
There was a second in Episode 5 this season the place Pennywise seems on the youngsters and says “Duck and canopy!” and each time I see that, I chortle as a result of he is playful in a second the place he’s about to attempt to slaughter these poor would-be younger heroes.
However, I believe it is enjoyable to know the totally different styles of Pennywise’s humor. I believe that Pennywise has moments that can register as comedic to the viewers — just like the “Duck and canopy” beat — however there are additionally moments which can be humorous solely to Pennywise that play completely in another way. So, when Pennywise is pursuing Lilly by way of the sewers in Pennywise type, however then he momentarily switches to the guise of her father, he thinks that is humorous as hell, however we as an viewers don’t as a result of we’re in Lilly’s perspective.
We’re enjoying with totally different parts of comedy and really darkish humor and attempting to weaponize them in several methods, whether or not it is to make the viewers chortle and open themselves as much as participating in a human manner. Or, different instances, it is about exhibiting Pennywise’s cruelty, which sharpens your sense of revulsion at this character. Pennywise loves what he does. There is a pleasure within the hunt, there is a pleasure within the kill, there is a pleasure within the struggling and I believe that’s disturbing in our present and in addition disturbing once you learn the novel.
And, we’re actually the beneficiaries of how brilliantly constructed the unique character is. We’re additionally the beneficiaries of Invoice Skarsgård’s efficiency. Invoice is ready to steadiness so many alternative issues in these moments. He is a unprecedented performer.
To me, the second that completely summarizes Pennywise’s humorousness is when he waves at Mike with that severed hand. It’s so humorous.
As a result of you may see he’s making himself chortle! He is having fun with what he is doing, which makes him much more horrible and terrifying.
Within the writing course of, did you give any thought as to why this house alien spider-thing would also have a humorousness? As a result of It’s not even actually a clown.
Effectively, It’s an interdimensional shape-shifting being whose true type is gentle.
Proper, sorry.
I believe it is enjoyable to invest why he has a humorousness. I did not create Pennywise. I am the momentary custodian of one in every of my favourite characters, so all I can provide are my theories and my ideas.
I believe it is truthful sport to go, “Does It have this perspective as a result of It has been round for thus lengthy and has seen a lot human cruelty and It’s a product of the human cruelty It has seen? Or, is the human cruelty itself a product of It’s interactions? It’s kind of of a sinister chicken-and-the-egg. So, I believe It’s persona could possibly be attributed merely to it taking the form and abiding by the principles of the types it inhabits — just like the merciless human type of Pennywise — however it’s additionally potential that It has extra of its personal persona from again in The Macroverse, earlier than It landed right here, than we perceive as a result of a lot of It is historical past continues to be shrouded in thriller.
I’m undecided if you happen to’re a fan of the unique miniseries, however the library scene in that could be very humorous.
The library scene I bear in mind very clearly. I noticed the miniseries fairly quickly after I learn the ebook. I grew up in Manhattan and there was a video retailer on Third Avenue between 84th and 83rd referred to as Video Room and I can nonetheless visualize that double-deck VHS set of the It miniseries. I bear in mind slipping it into our batch of leases with out my of us noticing and watching it in secret. And, that library scene, I simply thought was sensible. I might by no means seen something prefer it. It, as a story and in addition its humorousness, have been issues that stayed with me for a lot of, a few years.
Right here’s a query. So, there’s that darkish comedy within the trendy It and within the 1990 miniseries, however is it within the ebook? I’ve learn it three or 4 instances myself and I’m struggling to recollect if that’s in there. Do you suppose it’s or was that a component that wanted to be added to adapt It to a brand new medium?
That is an incredible query. I believe I do see it in there. I believe that the principle comedian engine within the ebook is Richie. Richie is a humorous character. And, even serious about Pennywise’s first encounter with Georgie, there’s black comedy in there. The expertise you’ve got once you’re studying that’s, you are cringing and smiling and going “Oh, no, no.” That constructing sense of menace and the sense of playfulness that Pennywise has with Georgie is darkish and terrifying and, I believe, in that scene, Pennywise is amused by his personal horrific antics.
